Nzinink,
Ndabona ahubwo atari ngombwa gushaka FDLR kuko umunyamerika we yabonetse wo gutanga ubuhamya. Keretse niba FDLR izaba ije guhamya ibyo uyu munyamerika yavuze. Ese iyi nkuru y'uyu munyamerika ntabwo yo abo muri Espagne ntabwo bari bayizi. Kuki se ije iki gihe ? Uwo mudamu se yamenye gute ko ari interahamwe, yanditse iyo nkuru se abisabwe na nde? Cyakora njye ndakeka ko extradition atari ukuburanisha icyaha. Wenda wo munyamerika na FDLR bagombye kwitegura bakazajya gutanga ubuhamya bwabo muri Espagne Karake yageze yo.
On Friday, 26 June 2015, 15:36, "Innocent TWAGIRAMUNGU itwagira71@gmail.com [Democracy_Human_Rights]" <Democracy_Human_Rights@yahoogroupes.fr> wrote:
A debate with Olivier NDUHUNGIREHE on this issue :
Olivier NDUHUNGIREHE
- Innocent Twagiramungu This is RPF usual game!!! Who killed Americans in the Nothern Park? Ask US justice and FBI to know RPF game. Who killed the hutu opposition top leaders Félicien Gatabazi, Emmanuel Gapyisi and Martin Bucyana? RPF soldiers of course. Are you aware of what they did to cover up and fool people until independent reasearchers as Prof. André Guichaoua reveal RPF criminals? It's the same game you try to play but it's very old. It won't work any more. You should advise your government to cooperate with British and Spanish justice.
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, this article was written, not by the Government of Rwanda, but by the New York Times. It was written, not now, but immediately after the facts, "in tempore non suspecto". The article was based, not on lunacies of a Spanish Judge, but based on the testimonies of SURVIVORS and WITNESSES of the massacre. Last question, I noticed that I can no more post anything on DHR, was I blocked?
- Innocent Twagiramungu Don't make me laugh about your so-called testimonies . We know how your government is specialized in forgery of surch testimonies to send to newspapers and partners. Before sending Rwandans to face US justice for the killing of American citizens, do you think there were no testimonies ? What happened afterwards? The FBI discovered the Americans were killed by your government. Would you bring your so-called testimonies if courageous Americans brought RPF criminals to justice?
About DHR, you can receive and post as usual. If you get any failure message,send it to me. - Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, "my so-called testimonies"? The article is about testimonies of SURVIVORS, collected right after the massacre. I don't see what would be the forgery and how could it be done! On this issue, can you show me, from Merelles' indictment, any survivor or witness of this massacre of January 1997, contradicting this story from the New York Times?
- Innocent Twagiramungu If you begin with such defense strategy, you don't help the accused you try to advocate for. This recalls what someone said in ICTR-ARUSHA : "Bring my victims to testify against me". If you go on so,General Karenzi Karake should fire you from his defense team both in court and social media. Even if you have no lawyer experience, you should pay attention as any law-educated person. About the strength of the judge Merelles' indictment, I have no doubt . The killings of 9 Spanish , 2 British citizens and thousands of Hutu Rwandans and Congolese citizens are well documented with many survivors' and witnesses' testimonies.
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, you just said many things in your message but you didn't answer to my simple question! By the way, I smiled when you tried to twist my statement, comparing it to Bagosora's! Bagosora asked a journalist to bring "the victims [he] killed so that they can accuse [him]". As for me, I just note that New York Times' article is based on testimonies of the SURVIVORS of the massacre (not victims)! Which brings me back to my question: can you show me, in the 187-page indictment of Merelles, on which page the Judge provided any testimony of survivor, accusing the RPF or General KK for the January 1997 massacre? I guess my question is simple and straight forward. No need to recall that you are a professional lawyer. This information is useless in the debate at hand.
- Innocent Twagiramungu Your government should cooperate with justice. The Judge Merelles is very serious. His witnesses and survivors are protected. That's why you are not aware. He knew your government was ready to kill them as it happened in the French procedure and Sarkozy -Kouchner game with Major Rose Kabuye "Hollywood "arrest.
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, but why are you afraid of answering my simple question? Where, in the 187-page indictment, can we read any testimony of a survivor of the january 1997 massacre, contradicting those reported by the New York Times? Do you even know that 3 RPA soldiers where killed by the Interahamwe assailants that day? For your information, both Interpol in 2008 and the Madrid High Court in 2015 even dismissed the indictment, as politically motivated (Interpol) and deprived on any credible evidence (High Court).
- Innocent Twagiramungu I can't organize the court on facebook. It's forbidden . The Spanish case has more than 1 ,000, 000 pages and contains so many hearings as testimonies for protected victims and witnesses. When you get access to the file, you will understand. That 's what you should normal do cooperating with Britain ans Spain if you fail to bomb both states.
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, let me make things easier for you. This massacre, dated 18 January 1997, is described, in Merelles Report, from page 26 to 30. But at no time did Merelles mention Mr Madhav or any other survivor of the massacre! At no time did Merelles inform us about any survivor or witness who accused RPF soldiers! So, question: why on earth did Fernando Andreu Merelles ignore all the survivors that could have given their precious testimonies, as they did for the New York Times 9 years before? Why does he accuse RPF soldiers without bringing any single evidence! Ringing a bell?
- Olivier Nduhungirehe By the way Innocent Twagiramungu, my message, sent 3 hours ago, is yet to be posted on DHR. And you were copied!
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, then read the English version, page 26-30. Judge Merelles doens't mention ANY of the survivors who had already testified to The New York Times in 1997! Don't you find this weird for a Judge? Or did Merelles know perfectly that those survivors and witnesses would not fit in his politically motivated indictment?
- Innocent Twagiramungu You have no access to the file and you pretend to know it.
- Innocent Twagiramungu The indictment document is not the file. Please, even if you have no lawyer experience, you should react as a normal law educated person.
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, LOL! I just have eyes to read! I read the 187 pages of the indictment and, besides conspiracy theories and other lunacies, I found no evidence or testimony on any of the accusations. You say that I don't know the case? In that case, what about the High Court of Madrid that dismissed the whole case in February this year?
- Emmanuel Bugilimfura Wow!! RPF is a saint organisation coming from Uganda to save those who happened to be brutalized by the regime of Habyalimana!! The world know what RPF is all about killing and killing hutus and terrorizing them in order to ask for forgiveness for the crimes they did not commit!! Only those who are coward have knelt to ask for forgiveness. They do not know what they are asking for ....!!!!
- Innocent Twagiramungu Advise your boss to cooperate with British and Spanish justice if he is unable to bomb both states
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, I like the way you use childish statements, when you don't have any argument on the case itself!
- Innocent Twagiramungu Up to now, you and your government have no access to file. Find a lawyer for your defense. This one will have access to the file and give you substantial elements.
- Dave A Muhire Olivier Nduhungirehe Don't you think that All those facing criminal charges should be arrested by states no matter their nationality? Karake, Netanyahu, Bush, Blair, Bashir......!!
- Innocent Twagiramungu Now you have nothing to organize a real defense. This campaign in the media is useless. You can't fool all people all the times.
- Innocent Twagiramungu Olivier Nduhungirehe, you can't pretend to know the file and organize the defense only from an indictment document. Even a social worker knows that. Try to find a lawyer and get access to the file.
- Olivier Nduhungirehe Innocent Twagiramungu, oh yeah? Let assume this is true, what about Interpol, which refused to send a red notice, arguing that the case is "politically motivated"? What about the High Court of Madrid, which dismissed the case for lack of evidence? Are they also "social workers"?
- Innocent Twagiramungu Spanish Lawyer Jordi Palou-Loverdos, who is representing the Spanish victims, said: "The evidence is that General Karake was himself involved in the organisation of these killings - of Rwandans, Congolese, Spanish, Britons and others - as the head of the DMI between 1994 and 1997.
"There was a targeting of missionaries and in 1997 of foreign aid organisations, including UN agencies, to force them to leave western Rwanda, where most of the killings were happening. We have many protected witnesses who have said very, very clearly that the instructions for this came from the top [of the DMI]." - Akana Alice ayiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Imanairebera impumyi ntihumbya
- Epa Twahirwa So, Olivier Nduhungire, if Interpol and spanish judge are not involved, who is involved in this arrest? BBC as suggested by Alice?
- Mitt J. Biseruka Don't argue with bread headed man. Olivier himself is innocent, he knows nothing about the case. You are feeding him what to speculate about or from media. This is RPF affair not PSD affairs. Mumureke Ni umumarayika.
UT UNUM SINT
Maître Innocent TWAGIRAMUNGU, DHR FOUNDER&OWNER
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/democracy_human_rights
Maître Innocent TWAGIRAMUNGU, DHR FOUNDER&OWNER
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/democracy_human_rights
" BE NICE TO PEOPLE ON YOUR WAY UP, BECAUSE YOU MIGHT MEET THEM ON YOUR WAY DOWN." Jimmy DURANTE.
COMBATTONS la haine SANS complaisance, PARTOUT et avec Toute ENERGIE!!!!!!
Let's rather prefer P.L.H.L ,Peace, Love , Hope and Life, and get together as one!!!
Inno TWAGIRA
COMBATTONS la haine SANS complaisance, PARTOUT et avec Toute ENERGIE!!!!!!
Let's rather prefer P.L.H.L ,Peace, Love , Hope and Life, and get together as one!!!
Inno TWAGIRA
2015-06-26 16:15 GMT+02:00 Nzinink nzinink@yahoo.com [Democracy_Human_Rights] <Democracy_Human_Rights@yahoogroupes.fr>:
The American survivor of that attack at one time gave an interview saying the attackers were Interahamwe.
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/20/world/hutu-militiamen-kill-3-spanish-aid-workers-in-rwanda.html
http://shantipax.com/tag/nitin-madhav/
On Jun 26, 2015, at 6:18 AM, itwagira71 itwagira71@gmail.com [Democracy_Human_Rights] <Democracy_Human_Rights@yahoogroupes.fr> wrote:DMI irimo gushaka aba EX-FAR bo kwemera ko ari bo bishe abanyaEspagne 3 mu Ruhengeri.
26/06/2015 15:31 AmakuruMu gihe ibijyanye n'ifatwa rya Lt Gen Karenzi Karake bikomeje kuvugwaho cyane mu bitangazamakuru by'isi yose, ubu Leta y'u Rwanda yatunguwe n'ifatwa rya Lt Gen Karake ntabwo yicaye ubusa abaturage basutswe mu mihanda, abakozi bavanywe ku kazi, abana bakuwe mu mashuri ndetse hari n'abashyize amagodora imbere y'Ambasade y'Abongereza ku Kacyiru ngo bazahava KK atashye!Ntabwo nabura kuvuga ariko ko abaturage batitabiriye iriya myigaragambyo tumaze kubona amakuru ko hari abaciwe amande y'amafaranga y'u Rwanda 2000, ntawamenya niba ari ukwegeranya ingwate KK agomba gutanga cyangwa azishyurwa muka Blair wunganira KK mu rukiko.Uretse kwegeranya amafaranga arenga Miliyaridi y'amanyarwanda agomba gutangwaho nk'ingwate kugira ngo Lt Gen Karake ave mu buroko ahubwo afungishwe ijisho gusa atemerewe kuva mu Bwongereza, ubu hari gukorwa irindi tekinika ryo mu rwego rwo hejuru.Amakuru agera kuri The Rwandan avuye mu basirikare bamwe bahoze muri FAR ndetse no muri FDLR aravuga ko ubu DMI irimo gushakisha abashobora gutozwa ibijyanye n'iki kibazo cya Lt Gen Karenzi Karake kugira ngo bazashyirwe imbere y'ibitangazamakuru byaba ibyo mu Rwanda cyangwa mu mahanga bamwe bemera ko ari bo bishe cyangwa bari mu gitero bariya banyaEspagne baregwa KK biciwemo cyangwa bavuge ko bafite amakuru kuri icyo gitero.Turacyakora iperereza neza ngo tumenye abashinzwe iryo tekinika ariko hagati aho ntibibatangaze nimubona Gen Rwarakabije cyangwa undi mu bo bazanye agiye mu itangazakuru avuga ko azi abishe bariya banyaEspagne mu bo bari kumwe.Hagati aho nabibutsa ko abo banyaEspagne bakoreraga umuryango utegamiye kuri Leta ufasha Medicus Del Mundo biciwe mu Ruhengeli nyuma y'aho bafatiye amafoto y'imirambo n'ibyobo rusange by'abantu bari bishwe mu cyahoze ari Komini Nyakinama n'abasirikare barimo abari baturutse muri EGENA bayobowe na Evariste Kabalisa, Firmin Gatera n'abandi basirikare bakuru. Amakuru amaze kumenyekana ko abo banyaEspagne bafotoye ibyo babonye hakozwe inama yo guhimba ikinamico cya DMI cyo kubica bikitirwa abacengezi, amakuru dufite n'uko icyo kinamico cyayobowe na Justus Majyambere, Evariste Kabalisa n'abandi basirikare nabibutsa ko DMI icyo gihe yategekwaga na Lt Gen Karenzi Karake.Ikindi abantu bagomba kumenya hano n'uko abo banyaEspagne bishwe bari kumwe na mugenzi wabo w'umunyamerika we ntabwo yishwe wenda kuko abahawe amategeko yo kwica bategetse ko aticwa kubera gutinya Leta Zunze Ubumwe z'Amerika ni nayo mpamvu iki kibazo usanga ku ruhande rw'Amerika basa nk'abakigurutsa kuko wenda bafite ibyo bumvikanye n'ubutegtsi bwa Perezida Kagame.Abazi imikorere yo mu Rwanda bazi neza ko nta kuntu umuntu uwo ari we wese muri FPR n'igisirikare cyayo yari gutinyuka kwica bariya banyaEspagne ngo asige umunyamerika bidahawe umugisha na Kagame ngo abivemo amahoro.The Rwandan26.06.2015Email: therwandan@ymail.comEnvoyé depuis mon appareil Samsung
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-Ce dont jai le plus peur, cest des gens qui croient que, du jour au lendemain, on peut prendre une société, lui tordre le cou et en faire une autre.
- The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish.
- I have loved justice and hated iniquity: therefore I die in exile.
- The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
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-To post a message: amakurunamateka@yahoogroups.com; .To join: amakurunamateka-subscribe@yahoogroups.com; -To unsubscribe from this group,send an email to:
amakurunamateka-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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https://www.facebook.com/musabeforum
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