[RwandaLibre] Fw: Mu Rwanda Inararibonye Nayinzira Jean Nepomuscene Arahanura FPRTr : *DHR* "Nize kubaho nk´umuturage utagira akazi, c misérable - Nayinzira

 

On Thursday, 14 August 2014, 8:28, "Michel Niyibizi niyimike@yahoo.fr [Democracy_Human_Rights]" <Democracy_Human_Rights@yahoogroupes.fr> wrote:

 

Mu Rwanda Inararibonye Nayinzira Jean Nepomuscene Arahanura FPR

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IZINDI NGINGO BIFITANYE ISANO

• Mu Rwanda Umunyaporitiki Nayinzira Jean Nepomuscene Yitabye Polisi
• Umunyaporitiki Nayinzira Yarivuguruje

16.05.2005 02:00

Nayinzira Yohani Nepomusene, ni umusaza w'imyaka 62. Yayujuje  tariki ya 10 z'ukwa 3 muri uyu mwaka. Azwi cyane muri poritiki y'u Rwanda, ariko cyane cyane guhera mu mwaka wa 1991, ubwo yashingaga ishyaka PDC - Parti Democrate Chretien - ritavugaga rumwe n'ubutegetsi bwariho.

Nyuma ya genocide kandi Nayinzira Yohani Nepomuscene yakomeje gukorana na guverinoma nshya, aba minisitiri,  aza no kuba depite mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko, ndetse aba n'umukuru w'inama y'igihugu y'ubumwe n'ubwiyunge.

Icyakora Nayinzira Yohani Nepomuscene yaje kuva ku mirimo y'ubudepite ashinjwa imyitwarire mibi, bituma  anasezera mu ishyaka rye k'ubushake bwe. Ubu yagiye kwiturira mu cyaro, mu kagari ka Kinyaga, umurenge wa Rubungo, akarere ka Gasabo, mu ntara ya Kigali Ngari. Twamusanze iwe,  tugirana ikiganiro gikurikira:

Uracyakora politiki?

Oh! Ndi umunyapolitiki. Kuko ndi umunyagihugu, kandi nkaba mfite akarusho kuko nanyuze mu nzira nyinshi zirimo amashyaka, ubuyobozi, n'ibindi. Hari ibintu byinshi nagiye mbona, nkaba  rero ntapfa  guceceka gusa, cyane ko mbona muri iki gihugu cyacu hakiri ikibazo cyo gutinyuka kuvuga ibintu uko biteye. Ushatse gutinyuka kuvuga agomba kujya hanze. Ntabwo ubundi ariko byakagombye kugenda. Icyo batinya n'iterabwoba rihari.

Muri iki gihe haravugwa  ikibazo cy'itahuka ry'Abanyarwanda bagize umutwe wa FDLR, basaba gushyikirana na guverinoma y'u Rwanda ku mitahukire yabo. Ibyo basaba bifite ishingiro?

Bifite ishingiro kandi icyo kibazo kigomba kwigwa neza. Ntabwo FPR ishobora kuvuga ngo abantu ntibagafate imbunda baharanira uburenganzira bwabo, kandi nayo ariyo nzira yanyuze. FPR siyo ishobora gutanga amasomo kuko nayo yafashe imbunda muri 90 kandi dialogue yari gushoboka. Bashoboraga gusaba uburenganzira bwabo nk'abatutsi, badafashe imbunda ngo bamene amaraso. Kugira ngo wigishe abantu kugera ku butegetsi mu mahoro nawe wagombye kuba waranyuze iyo nzira. Ntabwo rero FPR yakwigisha bariya barwanyi ba FDLR bafite ibirwanisho ngo bazatahe bamanitse amaboko kandi nayo itarayamanitse. Abagize FDLR ni Abanyarwanda kimwe n'abandi, kandi u Rwanda ni urwa twese. Igihe rero hari ibibazo bishyamiranya abenegihugu, hagomba imishyikirano mu mahoro. Imishyikirano rero ni ngombwa ndetse ikwiye gukorwa vuba.

Guverinoma y'u Rwanda ivuga ko harimo abakoze genocide.

FDLR ariko isobanura neza ko abicanyi bayirimo ubutabera bufite uburenganzira bwo kubakurikirana. Ubu ni byo biri mu Burundi. Imitwe yarwanyaga Leta ubu iri mu butegetsi, ingabo zayo zavanzwe n'iza Leta.  Ndakeka ko u Burundi bumaze kudusiga intambwe. Kutavuga rumwe biba bisaba ko abantu bagomba kuganira kugira ngo bagire ibyo bumvikanaho. Kandi ni yo byaba ishyaka rimwe ntabwo burya abaririmo baba bavuga rumwe. Ubu se abatangiye muri FPR hasigayemo bangahe ? Bagiye bagongana bapfa ubutegetsi, ubukungu n'ibindi.

Ubona hari ingaruka ihari guverinoma y'u Rwanda yanze gushyikirana, FDLR na yo ikanga gutaha?

Icya mbere ntabwo FDLR izataha imanitse amaboko. Biragaragara kandi kuko aho gutaha bohereje abagore n'abana. Jye mbona FPR niyanga  ibiganiro, bazaza nk'uko nayo yaje. Ndakeka ko ari ukutareba kure no kudafata amasomo mu byo na bo banyuzemo.

Gacaca yo urayibona ute?

Jye ndabona iri mu bizatuma iki gihugu gisambuka. Impamvu ni uko usanga ibyaha by'itsembabwoko byaratandukanyijwe n'ibyo itsembatsemba n'ibindi byaha by'intambara. Ni ukutamenya ubutabera. Niba gacaca igamije ubwiyunge, abiciranye bagomba kujya mu gatebo kamwe, Abanyarwada bakabategeka. Uwamennye amaraso wese y'Umunyarwanda, uko yayamennye kose, agomba gushyirwa ku meza. Niba hari uwayamennye ahagarika ubwicanyi agomba kuza na we bikamenyekana niba ari légitime defense (kwirwanaho) cyangwa niba ari ikindi yakoraga. Ubundi muri socio-politique abarebwa na gacaca ntibagombye no kugera ku ijana. Ndashaka kuvuga iki? Mbere y'intambara hari ikintu kitwaga escadron de la mort [ndlr:agatsiko kari gashinzwe kwica abantu ndlr]. Bari 33; niba rero bashaka kumenya abateguye ubwicanyi nibarebe abo bantu. Ntabwo ari abantu ibihumbi magana arindwi. Ikindi, defense civile yategetswe n'ubuyobozi n'abanyamadini. Ariko ubu abaturage ni bo bari guhonyorwa.

Wemera ko itsembabwoko ryateguwe?

Kuvuga ko itsembabwoko ryateguwe ni argument. Kuko uwashatse ubutegetsi ku ngufu yari azi neza ko abantu bazashiriramo. Ikindi kuvuga ko ihanurwa ry'indege ya Habyarimana nta ruhare ryagize mu bwicanyi bwo mu Rwanda ni ukwibeshya. Habyarimana ntitugomba kumureba nka Habyarimana, ahubwo tugomba kumureba nk'uwari perezida w'igihugu, wasinyanye amasezerano na FPR. Ni na cyo kibazo. Uwamwishe n'ubwo tutaramenya uwo ari we, afite uruhare mu ikindagurwa ry'Abanyarwanda. Amasezerano y'Arusha  yahagarikaga intambara n'ubwicanyi. Uwabikoze rero, ni we washenye ayo masezerano, byose abisubiza irudubi. Amasezerano amaze gusinywa, aho kugira ngo inzego zateganywaga zijyeho, ari MRND yatangiye gucukura imyobo, na FPR itangira gucukura iyayo.

Ntabwo urajya gutanga ubuhamya muri gacaca rero?

Nibantumira nzajyayo, ariko nabwo nta cyo nzabamarira kuko nta cyo nabonye. Kandi umunyapolitiki yagombye kugaragarira mu rwego rw'igihugu. Hagombye rero kubaho gacaca y'abaturage n'iyo abanyapolitiki. Kuko kenshi ntitwabaga muri za quartiers. Twirirwaga twiruka mu manama atandukanye ndetse tukanahura na FPR. Ibintu rero mfite biri ku rwego rw'igihugu, si urwo mu kagari kuko nta n'umuyobozi waho nigeze mvugana na we. Kandi  jye aho nari ntuye hahise hafatwa vuba.

Bamwe mu bayobozi b'Abahutu bakoranye n'ubutegetsi bwa kera ubu barashinjwa n'inkiko gacaca. Urabavugaho iki?

Kiriya ni ikintu gikomeye. Bigaragaza uburyo bitumvikana ukuntu wakemera gukorana n'abantu nka bariya, ubizi ko bafite ibyasha, ngo nurangiza wange gushyikirana n'abandi wita abicanyi. Niba wemeye gukorana n'abo bose bari gushinjwa, nta mpamvu abo hanze utashyikirana na bo. Ni aho rero FDLR igaragariza ingufu zayo. Muri abo bashinjwa hari abandwanyije kera kuko bakoreshwaga none baragaragaye. Ni abantu batagira aho bahagarara, bahora bajarajara. Cyakora jye naraboroheye nirinda no kuvangira ishyaka kugira ngo ritazamo amacakubiri.

Urashaka kuvuga Mukezamfura Alfred?

Yego. Yandwanyije kera kuva nkiri minisitiri ushinzwe ibidukikije. Ariko yarakoreshwaga kuko bagenzi be bafatanyaga baje kwivumbura, babivamo. Naho rero ku giti cye ibikorwa bye bibi si ibya vuba kuko n'igihe yari akiri bourgmestre wa Mukingi atitwaye neza. Ibyo byari bizwi na FPR, yari ibizi imukoresha ibizi.

Akazaza k'u Rwanda ukabona ute?

Abari k'ubutegetsi ni bo bafite urufunguzo rw'akazaza k'igihugu. Igihe rero batazemera kuganira n'abatavuga rumwe na bo kandi vuba, bazagwa mu mutego wa MRND, wabyaye intambara ya 90. Bizaba kandi  nk'ingoma ya cyami yanze kwumva ikibazo cy'Abahutu,  habaho ubwicanyi bwa 59.

Noneho ibyo Pasiteri Bizimungu yavuze muri Jeune Afrique l'Intelligent  ko Abahutu bazongera bagafata  intwaro murabihuje?

Yabaye nka ya nyoni y'inkotsa. Ibyo yavuze bifite ishingiro kuko yagendeye ku bushakashatsi bwakozwe n'abahanga. Ndibuka ko muri 96 turi mu nama ya guverinoma Pasiteri yadushyikirije inyandiko y'umwe mu bahanga mu iyigamoko. Iyo nyandiko ikaba yaragaragazaga ko ikibazo cy'Abahutu n'Abatutsi nikitigwa neza na nyuma ya genocide bazongera bicane barwanira ubutegetsi no gusuzugurana. Benshi mu bategetsi iyo nyandiko barayizi. Na perezida uriho ubwe arayizi kuko icyo gihe yari muri iyo nama. Ibyo yavuze rero ni iby'abahanga banditse. Ese koko sosiyete y'abantu 700 000 [abayobozi bashinjwa  gacaca] nubigizayo iyo sosiyete izasigara imeze ite? Perezida Museveni yigeze kuvuga ati ''ntabwo wahangana n'abantu ibihumbi 50 ngo wihe kutabumva, kubera ko bakoze iki n'iki. Buri wese muri abo wigijeyo umubariye abo mu muryango we 50 ba hafi, waba uhanganye na miliyoni 2 n'igice. Ati abo bantu wahangana na bo ute ?'' Ikibazo rero dufite ni politiki, kigomba kubona igisubizo cya politiki. No mu gihe cy'Abadage hahanwe abantu bo hejuru.

Kuri wowe rero ubwiyunge bw'Abanyarwanda buracyari kure.

Mu byukuri ubwiyunge bw'Abanyarwanda muri iki gihe ni ubwa nyirarureshwa. Abagombye kwiyunga si bo biyunga, ahubwo hiyunga abavuga rumwe.  Ubundi abagombaga kwiyunga bagaragazwaga n'amasezerano ya Arusha. Ayo masezerano yavugaga ko abari k'ubutegetsi n'ababushaka ari bo bagombaga kwiyunga. N'inama y'ubwiyunge yari iteganyijwe ni abo bantu yarebaga. Kandi izo mpande ebyiri ziracyariho n'ubwo habaye itsembabwoko n'itsembatsemba. Ku mpande zombi haracyari abantu batakoze itsembabwoko n'itsembatsemba. Kuko k'uruhande rw'abari bashyigikiye Leta icyo gihe si ko bose ari abajenosideri. Harimo abazima batagiye mu bwicanyi, ariko bitavuga ko bavugaga rumwe na FPR n'abari muri opposition. Ikindi  kandi ni uko  k'uruhande rwa MRND na FPR hari ba extremists, ari na bo badukururiye ishyano. Abo ni bo barwanye, bashora n'Abanyarwanda bose mu bwicanyi. Hanyuma hari n'abantu twagiye dufatanya na FPR ariko tuza gusanga politiki yayo tutayemera, twigizwayo. Ubwo na twe rero tugomba kwiyunga na FPR kugira ngo dushobore kumvikana ku nzira igihugu kiganamo. Ikibazo rero ni uko FPR, aho kugira ngo ikorane n'abantu bazima, yihitiramo gukorana n'abafatanyije na buriya butegetsi bwatsinzwe, kuko izi icyo igomba kubakoresha nk'ingaruzwamuheto. Cyakora nsanga ukuri kuzagaragaza strategies mbi za FPR.

Gahunda y'ubwiyunge ariko, n'ubwo utayemera, na we  uri mu bayiyoboye.

Icya mbere uko nagiyeho ntabwo nasabye kuba perezida wa komisiyo y'ubumwe n'ubwiyunge. FPR ni yo yantoranyije. Ntabwo rero nagiye muri uwo mwanya ngo nkore uko mbyumva. Narakoreshwaga. Navuga ibintu bya politiki ngo ibyo ngibyo nta mwanya bifite. Harimo kandi n'ikibazo cy'ibikomere by'abantu ku mutima biturutse ku marorerwa bari bavuyemo, mbese abantu bagihanganye. Hari rero mu bihe  bikomeye. Cyakora ntabwo byambujije gukora inyandiko nerekana ko hakwiye kubaho ibiganiro mu rwego rwa demokarasi na politiki, kandi Abanyarwanda bose bakinjizwamo.

Ubu se twavuga ko hari ikibazo cy'Abahutu n'Abatutsi?

Ikibazo kirahari. Ndetse nkabona bifitiye inyungu ubutegetsi buriho guteganya vuba ibiganiro kuri icyo kibazo mu rwego rwo hejuru.  Icyo kibazo cyagaragaye kuva kera muri za 58 Rudahigwa atarapfa. Ni bwo Abahutu bagaragaje ko bakandamijwe, kuko bahezwaga mu butegetsi, Abatutsi begereye umwami bakavuga ko nta kibazo gihari. Rudahigwa na we atinyuka kuvuga ko nta kibazo gihari. Ntabwo rero yafashije ubwiyunge bw'Abanyarwanda. Impapuro zirahari zirabyerekana. Ibyabaye icyo gihe rero ni byo byagarutse na none muri 90, aho na none Abahutu bamaze kwigarurira ubutegetsi na bo baheza abatutsi. Icyo kibazo rero kikaba gikwiye kuganirwaho neza.

Ni kuki Perezida wa repubulika atakwituye kandi mwarapiganywe akagutsinda, ukabyemera kandi ukanamushimira intsinzi ye?

Ibyo biri mu bushake bwe. Ariko gusuzugura un partenaire si byiza kuko ahandi uwo mupiganwa si umwanzi. Biriya bimeze nk'ibya MRND. Na yo yagusangizaga ku butegetsi iyo wemeraga kuba igikoresho. Ibyo kuba igikoresho narabisabwe ariko ndabyanga. Uzarebe nyine abemera kuba ibikoresho ni ba bandi bahora bahuzagurika mu bitekerezo byabo.

Watumara amatsiko k'uburyo ubaho muri iki gihe nta kazi?

Ntunzwe n'igitunze nyabuturi [ndlr: umuturage nyakujya]. Umuturage udafite munsi y'urugo abaho ate? Uko abaho nanjye ni ko mbaho. Ubu nize uko umuturage utagira akazi abaho, nanjye mbaho gutyo. C'est miserable! Ariko narabyakiriye. Ubutwari nabuvanye he? Imana yari ifite byoseee! Itegeka byose. Yigize umuntu, yigira umukene.  Uko yabayeho mu gikene nanjye niko mbaho. Nabyakiriye kandi mbyakira ntinuba, ntawe ntuka, ntawe ngira nte.
 

Le Mercredi 13 août 2014 18h04, "agnesmurebwayire@yahoo.fr [Democracy_Human_Rights]" <Democracy_Human_Rights@yahoogroupes.fr> a écrit :

 

Ni mu kiganiro nyakwigendera JN Nayinzira yahaye radiyoyacuvoa.com taliki ya 16 Gicurasi 2005.

VOA: Watumara amatsiko k'uburyo ubaho muri iki gihe nta kazi?

Nayinzira:

Ntunzwe n'igitunze nyabuturi [ndlr: umuturage nyakujya]. Umuturage udafite munsi y'urugo abaho ate? Uko abaho nanjye ni ko mbaho. Ubu nize uko umuturage utagira akazi abaho, nanjye mbaho gutyo. C'est miserable! Ariko narabyakiriye. Ubutwari nabuvanye he? Imana yari ifite byoseee! Itegeka byose. Yigize umuntu, yigira umukene.  Uko yabayeho mu gikene nanjye niko mbaho. Nabyakiriye kandi mbyakira ntinuba, ntawe ntuka, ntawe ngira nte.

Mu Rwanda Inararibonye Nayinzira Jean Nepomuscene Arahanura FPR

			Mu Rwanda Inararibonye Nayinzira Jean Nepomusce... Nayinzira Yohani Nepomusene, ni umusaza w'imyaka 62. Yayujuje  tariki ya 10 z'ukwa 3 muri uyu mwaka. Azwi cyane muri poritiki y'u Rwanda, ariko cyane ...
			Afficher sur www.radiyoyacuvo...	Aperçu par Yahoo

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Envoyé par : Michel Niyibizi <niyimike@yahoo.fr>

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